Ed and Lorraine Warren: The Beginning of a Paranormal Legacy

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hey everyone on this week's episode of Whispers from the Mist, Conversations from the Spiritual Byway. Today Stacy and I will be discussing Ed and Lorraine Warren, two of the most recognized names in paranormal history. Beyond their famous cases and Hollywood's loosely based interpretations of them, their work was deeply rooted in faith. They believed that giving in to the fear could make the darkness feel more powerful, and that protection, discernment, and trust in God were all essential when facing the unknown. Today we're looking at who they were, how their work began, the beliefs that carried them through it all, and how their legacy continues today. Even years after their passing. And with that, we will continue this story along the spiritual byway.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

Hello, everybody, and welcome to this week's episode of Whispers from the Mist Conversations from the Spiritual Byway. I am Stacy, and joining me today is the Michelle. The Michelle.

SPEAKER_01 1:04

I like that. Like the Annabelle. The no, I'm kidding. I'm live. I'm not a doll. I'm kind of sad not talking about dolls today.

SPEAKER_00 1:13

No. Did you want to revisit anything?

SPEAKER_01 1:15

No, I don't. I just thought I would say that. No, today we're moving on to another topic. Kind of. This topic's related to Annabelle. So she still will be like part of the story, but not the whole story. Because today, of course, we are going to be talking about Ed and Lorraine Warren.

SPEAKER_00 1:35

I'm really excited. So I am going to share with our listeners that I don't know a lot about Ed and Lorraine Warren. I know bits and pieces. So Michelle and I were talking about this before, and it's going to be this awesome conversation. I'm actually excited to learn.

SPEAKER_01 1:51

And I'm actually excited to be your teacher because I've been doing a lot of research on them. And it's one of those things where I don't know how we are going to fit it all in one episode and do them justice because Ed and Lorraine Warren really were the grandparents of modern-day ghost hunting. They didn't have social media to promote themselves. They didn't have television shows or anything like that. But what they had is a good sense of self. They had a good sense of their mission. They were committed to God. Everything they did, and we'll get into this later, had to do with their Catholic upbringing. And did I say committed to each other? Because they they really truly were.

SPEAKER_00 2:37

Yes. That is the one thing that I do know about Ed and Lorraine Warren is they were the couple. Like they depended on one another so beautifully.

SPEAKER_01 2:45

And I know if you want to dig, there's always going to be skeletons in the closet or what don't know if they're true. So I'm not going to talk about them today. But I really am going to do my best to stay true to their story, a little bit about their timeline, a little bit about who they were, their relationship together, how they got into the paranormal, and just their mission. I'm excited. I am too. So before I jump in, Stacey, I do want to ask, when did you first hear the names and Lorraine Warren? And were their names associated with a real case or something you saw on TV, or maybe the Hollywood remaking of something like The Conjuring World?

SPEAKER_00 3:25

Oh, that is such a great question because I am not sure of the answer if I'm being so, so, so real. Um, I know even when I was in high school, I remember the names Ed and Lorraine Warren. And I know it's because, again, like you said, they were kind of the uh grandparents of paranormal investigation. And I I did my own paranormal investigations during high school time. So the people that I that I worked with that I would go out on these investigations with, we we would talk a lot about history and stuff like that. So 25, 26, 20, almost 30 years ago.

SPEAKER_01 4:01

That's amazing. I'm trying to recall the first time I ever heard of Ed Lorraine Warren, and it probably had something to do with one of the movies they're associated with. Of course, you know, the Annabelle series, the Nun series, the Conjuring series. Those are all based on cases, but they're based on cases. It's Hollywood's interpretation of their general experience. Hollywood really sensationalized it, but it's not exactly how everything went down. And we talked a little bit about that when we were talking about Annabelle and how in the movie she's like a porcelain doll with blonde hair. And then in real life, she's a raggedy Ann doll. Which again, to me, is a little bit more creepier than the porcelain doll. They porcelain doll dolls are are pretty creepy.

SPEAKER_00 4:46

I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna lie.

SPEAKER_01 4:48

Okay, well, we're gonna jump into the story of Edward Warren Miney, born on September 7th, 1926 in Bridgeport, Connecticut. He has described having some very unsettling experiences with the paranormal that caused him to be a little bit fearful. And one of them includes going into the dark closet and having an elderly woman's face appear. And no, thank you. Yeah, no, thank you. None of them. I don't want to see anyone in any of my dark closets or anything like that. But one of the things we've talked about is Ed didn't have a lot of support from his father. When he would come to his father and say, I'm having these experiences, his father's response would be more along the lines of there's a reason for everything.

SPEAKER_00 5:45

Rub dirt in it, move on.

SPEAKER_01 5:47

Yeah, exactly. Pick yourself up and move on from it. He remembers as a child overhearing a priest and his father discussing an actual exorcism. And that's kind of what started that idea of spiritual warfare or the possibility of it in his mind, in his early thinking. Now I'm gonna jump over to Lorraine, and her full name was Lorraine Rita Moran Warren. She was born on January 31st, 1927. Um as a young child, she saw auras. She saw lights around people, colors around people, and like my friend Robin said when she was here, she just assumed everybody could see it.

SPEAKER_00 6:33

I'm looking at a picture of them right now as you're describing them, just because, you know, the the time that they lived in, and she looks like the kind of person that I would be like, hey, can we be friends? I don't know if you can see that.

SPEAKER_01 6:46

I know. I I I agree with you on that. I've seen a lot of pictures of her recently, and I will talk a little bit later about her grandson's relationship with his grandma and how he says the exact same thing about her. She was grandma. That that's what she was. She was loving, she was caring, she had a big heart. At a young age, she could see Aura. She thought everyone else could see them. When she went away to an all-girls school, she would talk to the nuns about what she was seeing, and it was very highly discouraged not to mention it. So she learned at a very young age that that was kind of a taboo subject.

SPEAKER_00 7:25

So she and and Warren went through very similar upbringings where people were essentially like, we don't want to explore what they're experiencing. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 7:36

Exactly. And they experienced it in different ways. He was seeing things around them, like he is a demonologist, he's going in, he's fighting that war between good and bad. But she described herself as clairvoyant and a light trance medium, which means that when she would go into those trances, she was aware of her surroundings, even though she was receiving impressions. Years later, she would undergo psychic testing connected with parapsychology research, and she scored very highly on that. And when she would go on investigations, she didn't go there to tell a ghost story. She would be the one that was sitting quietly, observing everything going on, asking inward questions, and describing impressions that she would get of people, places, or presences. So that's a little bit about who they were and what they brought to the table. Now, their love story started when Ed was an usher at a movie theater. And Lorraine had gone to the movie theater, I believe, with her mom. And when she met him, she could see him in her life as an older man, and she knew that she was going to marry him. I love that. I know, isn't that so cool? Wouldn't that make like dating and everything so much easier? I I've seen it. I know you're the one because I've seen it. Oh, yes, that would be amazing. But it would take maybe some of the surprise out of it. But you know, confirmation.

SPEAKER_00 9:13

Yeah, what fun is that? But at the same time.

SPEAKER_01 9:16

Yeah, you get to live your confirmation, right? You still get to have experiences. Doesn't have to be boring just because you know that that's the person. So anyhow, Ed did enter the Navy during World War II at around the age of 17. And he was involved in an incident at sea in which many people, I believe, passed away. And he was thrown into the water and he went to help someone. And I think he was praying, and those flames, because it was a very fiery incident, kind of cleared the path, and he was rescued. So yeah, that was very affirming that prayer that's power. Uh, they were married on May 22nd, 1945, and they had their daughter, Judy, on January 11, 1946. They loved each other, they had a very strong partnership, they traveled together all the time. Everything they did, it was together. And they were bonded by their love and respect for each other and also their ties to that Roman Catholic religion. That was the base of everything that they did. Yeah, that's what it sounds like. After he was released from his military duty, one of the things that Ed did to make money is he would go out and he would paint homes, landscapes, tourist scenes, and he would sell them. So he would start sketching homes that were rumored to be haunted or homes that they identified as haunted. And then they would go to the front door and you know, he'd be like, I have this painting to sell, and I'm picking up this. And then the homeowners would start talking to him. So that's how he would get his foot in the front door because he believed they were haunted. Yeah. I think that's so fascinating. I mean, how creative to put your artistic ability together with that psychic instinct and work with your wife again, being a team.

SPEAKER_00 11:19

I'm sure there there was some pushback with that though, too, because they they lived in a time where there were a lot of door-to-door salesmen as well. So, you know, I'm I'm sure that while they had significant success, which we know, they probably got door shut in their face a few times too.

SPEAKER_01 11:38

I'm sure they they had many doors slammed in their face. And, you know, I think this is when Ed really started focusing in on his version of fear, that once we start to fear something, we give it power. And so when he's going to these homes and he's introducing himself and saying, I drew this picture because I feel like it's haunted, and the homeowners would then open up, he saw that they were frightened too. And so he could relate to them on the level he needed to because he had that shared experience of being frightened in a home and nobody having the conversation.

SPEAKER_00 12:19

I mean, that's that's why we have this podcast, right? Is to normalize these things that I don't want to say go bump in the night, but these experiences that people have that can be uh scary if if you're not expecting them or you don't know what to do with them or you don't have anybody to talk to about them. Right.

SPEAKER_01 12:36

And back then, again, no podcasts, local radio channels weren't telling these stories. Right. So anyhow, in 1952, Ed and Lorraine found the New England Society for Psychic Research, or NESPER, and their work started to shift from those informal, unannounced visits to more structured and investigative opportunities. And during the 50s and 60s, they would go, they would investigate homes, objects, cemeteries, reported spiritual activity, but again, not something popular on TV, not something that a lot of people were doing, yet they were running towards it. They were building a reputation as being there and being available. And I I will share this right now. And I find it fascinating that in cases where people were in trouble and facing something frightening and unknown, they never charged for it. Oh wow. They went to help. They genuinely wanted to help. And for them, it's not we're just going on a ghost adventure. It was weird.

SPEAKER_00 13:48

What we do to assist you.

SPEAKER_01 13:50

Yes, and educate people that there is good and there is evil. And one of the steps again to fighting evil is not being fearful of it and bringing in that holy protection directly from God.

SPEAKER_00 14:06

And essentially what I'm hearing is it's facing the fear, facing that evil, but it's also not being a dick, which is why I wouldn't have charged, because they want to be there. And if you if you're using this as a moneymaker, you're gonna charge an arm and a leg to work through the fear with somebody when it sounds like they truly embodied what they were practicing, which I think is beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 14:29

Yes. And they started building that reputation on the East Coast of who they were. And again, it was word of mouth. And as they got into the late 60s, their reputation is growing. And now we have clergy, people of the church, families just reaching out and wanting to have conversations with them. People are very interested in their investigations, what they're learning. So they're lecturing, they're sharing their photographs, they're sharing their recordings, and then they kind of start appearing in media. They're they're making a name for themselves. But I think that would be really cool to go back in time. If I could travel back in time, I would love to sit through one of their lectures.

SPEAKER_00 15:15

Well, I know there's a story that that I recall, and it might have been a big movie that that was made where they went to help somebody and were doing whatever they could. And I think Lorraine at the end was like, I don't think we can help you. You have to help yourself. And I think like it there was this depiction of her shaking this person's hand and going, no.

SPEAKER_01 15:38

Huh.

SPEAKER_00 15:39

And I'm trying to remember what it was.

SPEAKER_01 15:41

Well, there is a lot of criticism on the Warrens too. They are a controversial couple. And, you know, I just keep going back to they believe in the mission. They believe in the mission. They believe that they're here to do something to help people and they want to help people. So I I'd be interested in hearing what story that was, and maybe we'll find it in our research. So again, you know, people are now reaching out to them in the 1970s. Of course, they become introduced to the Annabelle doll. If you want to hear more about her, listen to the episode we recorded two episodes ago. In 1971, this is probably the most famous case because now it is a Hollywood blockbuster, but that's when they were called in to investigate the Perone family who lived in Harrisville, Rhode Island. This is the Conjuring House. You have all heard of the Conjuring House, and I'm so happy to say I've not watched a single movie associated with it.

SPEAKER_00 16:45

I don't believe I have either.

SPEAKER_01 16:47

I I don't do a lot of horror though, so yeah, I don't either, but I will share that on Gaia I saw an interview with Andrea Perone, who was the oldest daughter who lived in that house, and it was quite fascinating, a quite fascinating story, much different. And again, I haven't watched the movies, but she pointed out some of the differences. So Hollywood took its liberties.

SPEAKER_00 17:08

Of course.

SPEAKER_01 17:09

As it does. You got to make it interesting, right? Oh, oh yeah. Um, between 1974 and 1976, we had the Lindley Street poltergeist, which happened in Bridgeport. Now, this one is interesting, and this is one we should deep dive into because it draws in the police, fire officials, engineers, reporters. So this one got a lot of public attention. So maybe that's when we look at. And the other one I'm so fascinated by because there's so much information about, even though I can't pronounce it correct, is the Amnityville house that the Lutz family moved into after Robert DeFeo Jr. murdered his entire family there.

SPEAKER_00 17:50

Well, I will tell you, out of all the ones that you just listed off, the Enfield Poltergeist was one that I was like, oh, that's interesting. I don't know a lot about it. So maybe I'll deep dive into that.

SPEAKER_01 18:02

Yeah. Yeah. You'll have to tune back in to see which cases we we choose. In 1980 to 81, they started working on the David Glatzel and Arnie Cheyenne Johnson case, which really the most important thing to remember about the case are the words the devil made me do it. That was a defense that was used in that case, supported by the Warrens. So it's the case where it basically said that a court will not use demonic possession as a legal defense. That's interesting. Very interesting. So then we're moving into the 80s, we're moving into the Smurl family. Their case was in Pennsylvania, and then the Sn Sneedecker family, which of course became the Haunting in Connecticut movie. Now, later in their career, the Warrens, they are out there in the field and they are doing the work, but they're also understanding this is a legacy and they can't fight it alone. So they are actually training investigators on how to go in there and do the work that they're doing. We mentioned earlier that they had a daughter, Judy, Judy Spira. She married a man named Tony. It was her second husband, but Judy had a son named Chris. And Chris McKinnell, I believe I'm saying it right. Chris, if you're listening and I'm saying it wrong, sorry. But he was their grandson. And I believe at a very young age, Ed was taking him into these places and exposing him to what a demonologist does. And can you imagine that? I mean, most of us have these upbringings that don't include anything nearly as cool as that. And I mean, I'm thinking about this kid even when he was younger, like what show and tell would be like. You know, I would bring my doll back then to show and tell, and he could bring like stories of what his grandma and grandpa done. I'm sure that doesn't make him the most popular kid in the neighborhood. Parents are probably a little bit careful around him or having their kids around him just because of what he does or what his grandparents did. Yeah, but I just think that's important because I mean they knew they wouldn't live forever, and so they started putting in place a way for people to train. After a trip to Japan, Ed did suffer a debilitating stroke. Uh he spent approximately 11 weeks in a coma. The effects of the stroke were long-lasting. And the whole time he was sick, Lorraine was by his side. She was a devoted caregiver looking after him. He did die on August 23rd, 2006, at his home, and Lorraine was beside him. He was 79 years old. Fast forward about seven years. That's when The Conjuring is first released. And I mean, The Conjuring again, loosely, loosely based on the legends of Ed and Lorraine, but introducing them to the next generation of kids, like Generation X to the next generation and so on. Lorraine, I believe, was at the premiere. I've seen some cool pictures with her and the person who played her in the film, and I just thought, oh, that's pretty sweet and special to see that happening. I wonder what her thoughts were on it. I didn't find anything where she objected to it or had an issue with it. So, I mean, it probably was really cool seeing someone play you, even though you know the stories aren't exactly correct, or it's not exactly how it played out. Lorraine did die on April 18th, 2019, at the age of 92. Now, story out there is that when she passed away, security footage did show orb-like lights moving near her coffin. So take that as you want to. I take it as she was met by loved ones. Absolutely. Moving forward, you know, they had their legacy. They have the New England Society for Psychic Research for Nesper. Um, they have uh Judy Sparra and Tony Sparra still supporting their research, supporting an understanding of them, preserving it. Uh, they have their grandson, Chris McKinnell, who is out there spreading their words, spreading their mission. Just yesterday on social media, I did see something along the lines of him talking about fear again and how we are the ones that give it power. So they live on. They they live on, and there are a lot of resources, which we'll put in our show notes where you can go and you can hear a little bit more about them because they truly were fascinating. And again, where there is great progress forward, there's always going to be controversy. There's controversy out there, you can find it very easily. People claiming it was a hoax, it wasn't real, people questioning their methods. But it's so important to remember throughout everything, it was their love for each other, their belief in what they were doing, it is their their faith, like their spiritual tools. And I believe we will find this when we go in to stay at the Warren House. They're gonna teach us how to protect ourselves. But it was always through the light of God. It was through the use of holy water.

SPEAKER_00 23:35

And you have to remember in historical progress is just that we have to learn and change and grow and realize, you know, you know, perhaps the methods that they were using were awful and not great. But that's progress. That's how you change and you grow.

SPEAKER_01 23:54

Exactly. And they again they ran towards it where many people wouldn't even acknowledge that. And both of them experienced that at a young age. And again, I think it's important to state that like even in the case of Annabelle, they didn't believe the doll was a bad doll. They believed something haunted was attached to it. So they never blame the object. From what I could find in my research, it was always something that was attached to it.

SPEAKER_00 24:23

Right.

SPEAKER_01 24:24

And again, another big part, good versus evil, where there is good, there is bad too. So we have to acknowledge that. And once we acknowledge that, that gives us power to move forward. Absolutely. I agree with that. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 24:41

I can't wait to see what we come up with now.

SPEAKER_01 24:43

I know, I know. There's just, I feel like I didn't do it all justice because there's so much here. And just remember, Ed was a demonologist. He would go into exorcisms, he did work with priests, uh, he worked with pastors. Again, even though they were so Catholic, they didn't turn away from other religions. Right. Yeah. And that's the way they invited everybody in and were willing to help for the sake of helping, for the sake of being useful and this being their mission here and them recognizing it. Again, they didn't charge from what I could see for them going in to help families, but they did, of course, make a living off of like their lectures and their books and things like that.

SPEAKER_00 25:25

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 25:26

I'm sitting here at the end of this and I'm feeling like I just skipped over so much, and I know I'm gonna look in my notes and be like, oh, I should have said that.

SPEAKER_00 25:34

What's beautiful though is it's okay because we're coming back and we're gonna be looking at at least one, two, if not three, of their most famous investigations. So we are going to be revisiting them, Shell.

SPEAKER_01 25:47

We are, and we can share more about them in each of those episodes. But please do remember like there is so much information out there if you want to look into them. And I know I was getting ready to close this out, but I did promise at the beginning I was going to share a little bit about Chris McKinnall, the grandson, and his perspective. He described Lorraine as very warm, loving, nurturing, festive, and somebody who always cared about the people around her. She was his grandma. And as she faced her final moments, he was there with her. And he has said he's been in the home and felt her presence there in the home.

SPEAKER_00 26:24

If you look at pictures of her, you feel that beautiful grandmother energy in such a great way.

SPEAKER_01 26:29

Yeah. Yeah. And he said that his grandfather, he was a good man, but very much like a mentor more than like the traditional grandpa. Like he would take Chris with him where he went. And it would just be like, okay, buck up, like, wipe it off. Let's move on, let's do this. So, and yeah, I think that's what I want to share. Places that you can find them. You can go to the New England Society for Psychic Research, NESPER, the Warren Legacy Foundation, which is connected to Chris McKennell's education and his own investigative work, the Warren Files and related interviews, which you can find on YouTube. So there's so many places you can find information about them. And I guarantee it it's fascinating. I mean, they really did have that true love story balanced with the work that they did, which was not always light.

SPEAKER_00 27:22

Right. I love it.

SPEAKER_01 27:23

Yeah. And I know somewhere I have three questions for my listeners. The first one is before listening to this episode, did you know Ed and Lorraine Warren mainly through their real investigations or through the conjuring films? Um, the second question is: Do you think a paranormal investigator's personal faith provides strength and protection, or can it also influence how an experience is interpreted? And the third question is, which Warren case should we explore in depth in the next two episodes? Amityville, the Perone family's conjuring house, the haunting and kinetic, the Smurl family, or the Devil Made Me Do It? Or any other case that you could think of. So those are your three questions. And of course, we would love for you to reach out to us and let us know what you think. What cases should we research? I can't wait until I can't wait to dig in. It's gonna be fun. I know it's gonna be really a whole lot of fun. And with that, Stacey, do you wanna close out the episode? Stay curious. Trust what you know, and we'll meet you along the spiritual byway. Bye everyone. Bye, everybody. Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of Whispers from the Mist: Conversations from the Spiritual Byway. This show exists to make the paranormal feel a little more normal, to create a space for curiosity, connection, and the kinds of conversations we don't always know where to have. If you are enjoying this podcast, we truly appreciate it if you take a moment to leave a review or to share the show with someone who might need it. Your support helps this podcast reach others who are searching for the same sense of understanding and community. Thank you so much for taking the time to be here with us and for walking this stretch of the spiritual byway. Wherever you are on your journey right now, just know you're not alone. We're here for you, and we're all in this together.