Divination: The Spiritual Side of Decision Making

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Hey everyone, and welcome back to Whispers from the Mist Conversations from the Spiritual Byway. On this week's episode, we are stepping into the world of divination, the cards, the tools, the symbols, and the quiet conversations that they invite us to have with ourselves in the unseen. Together we explore the difference between curiosity and control, when these tools can support your intuition, and how protection and intention shape the experience. We'll also gently unpack some of the biggest misconceptions surrounding divination so you can approach it with clarity, respect, and an open heart. So take a deep breath, settle in, and join us as we follow the whispers, wherever they may lead.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

Hello, everybody, and welcome to another episode of Whispers from the Mist Conversations from the Spiritual Byway. I'm Stacy, and with me today is Michelle.

SPEAKER_01 0:57

Hello.

SPEAKER_00 0:58

That sounds like a whisper. A whisper. I was trying to do a whisper. A whisper. That it just sounded more high-pitched. Oh I gotta work on my whisper. How are you doing today? I'm doing good. How about you? I'm doing great. It's a cold day here. We're I know it this is gonna be released well after, but we're approaching the big holiday of Valentine's. Oh, the love day. The love day.

SPEAKER_02 1:26

The commercial holiday, as my husband would say.

SPEAKER_00 1:29

Yes, yes. I did ask my husband if he would be my Valentine today, and he said he would. So, you know, at least I have that going for me. How sweet is that? Well, it was actually pretty funny because I sent him a text while he was at work and I said, Hey, I have a quick question for you. And his immediate response was response was, uh oh. Because he never knows what direction I'm gonna go in. And then I just said, Will you be my Valentine? And he said yes. And so I sent him a gift of the Carleton. Aw.

SPEAKER_02 2:02

Yeah. That is so sweet. You know, I haven't heard about asking someone to be my Valentine for a really long time. But I was having a conversation with a 20-some-year-old, and he has started dating this new young lady. And I'm like, so what do they call it? Because I feel so antiquated saying, is she your girlfriend? Because I know there's so many other names for it. And he's like, it's complicated, but not really. And I'm like, okay, well, I'll just leave it there. I just know the process is different.

SPEAKER_00 2:32

Language is so such a fickle thing, too. And everything changes so quickly that it's hard to stay caught up on like new terms for things, which is it's hysterical and it's it's kind of intriguing at the same time.

SPEAKER_02 2:48

And I'm so glad I'm past that part in my life where I don't have to learn the new terminology because I probably would get a big fat F.

SPEAKER_00 2:55

Uh, you and I both, I mean, so my husband and I met a little over what two years ago now, and we did the whole, are we dating? Are we, are we together? Like, we went through that too, because it was like, what do we call this now? Like, what are we doing? And it was it was pretty funny because I remember when we had decided to be specific. Thank you, that's the word. The the we decided to be exclusive. It was a couple, it was probably a couple months after we met, because we we met, you know, when I was transitioning out of a a marriage, but I told, I had told him, I said, I'm not looking for serious right now. I need to get through all of this. And I think it was like less than a month later, he called me up and he said, Stacey, I don't want to talk to anybody else. And I was like, Well, what are you what are you asking? He goes, I want to be exclusive. And I said, All right, we'll see where it goes. And that was it.

SPEAKER_02 4:00

And now you're married. So after he said that, did you run and like grab your tarot cards or surprisingly, no.

SPEAKER_00 4:08

So I very good transition too, by the way. Good transition, right? I'm good at this. Because we are going to talk about divination tools. I will start by making a confession. And that is, I very rarely, rarely read for myself in with any divination tool.

SPEAKER_02 4:28

That is true. I know when you've had questions in the past, you have come to me and said, Hey, would you mind doing a reading for me? And I'm like, absolutely. Like, just you know, give me a little bit of time, I'll get organized, and I can do that. Because often when we do readings for ourselves, it becomes we are putting, well, how should I say this? We sometimes can skew the results to see what we want to see. And so while it is authentic and we try not to do that, that little bit of bias will sneak in.

SPEAKER_00 4:59

Yeah, and I and I will be the first to admit that in with with the use of any tool for myself, I am very biased because I know you know the different symbols or answers that I'm looking for. And, you know, you you hope to see them, but you can also, like if you're using rods or um even a pendulum, you can shift things. But before we dive too deep into the many, many different tools there are, I feel like we might need a definition for what is a divination tool. So a divination tool is an instrument used across many different cultures or history that seeks insight beyond the visible world. Um, they help individuals connect with their higher wisdom or inner knowing, or even just their subconscious mind during moments of uncertainty, or just to reflect.

SPEAKER_02 5:54

And I love how you say that because divination tools are really about, in my opinion, gaining insight, connecting to what is possible rather than getting a direct prediction about something. Like I don't want to use them in order to find out, I don't know, the thing that's popping to my mind, what year I'm gonna die, because A, they're not gonna give that information to me anyway, and B, that takes the joy out of living. So I'm not looking for a direct step-by-step guide and prediction as to what the future holds, but I want to invite that conversation with my intuition, with my higher self.

SPEAKER_00 6:34

Right. And and not only that, sometimes getting answers that are predictive in nature can actually be more damaging to the experience that we're here to have on earth. So while whenever I do a reading utilizing tarot cards, which is how I read, it's my divination tool of choice. Um, I might give a glimpse into the future. But you as a sitter, as a person, as a human with experience and and the choice of of what you're here for, get to shift any outcomes you want to shift.

SPEAKER_02 7:14

And while you were talking about that, what came to my mind is many years ago, several years ago, I was invited to be a guest on a podcast. Unfortunately, I did not do my due diligence and listen to the podcast ahead of time or consider the questions she might ask. I thought we were just going to be having a conversation like this. However, in that conversation, she was asking me about those predictive readings that I do. And I'm like, I don't do predictive readings. What they really feel like to me when I'm working with tarot cards is kind of giving you a snapshot of where you are now, of the messages that your guides are wanting you to hear. Right. And so I always thought of it more as, and I don't call myself a spiritual coach. I haven't had the training for that, but more like life coaching or something where the guys are coming through and saying, this is what we want you to know right now about your life. And we can look at a possible trajectory, but it's all within your power to change.

SPEAKER_00 8:17

Right.

SPEAKER_02 8:18

And this lady, going back to the podcast, got so snippy with me that I'm like, here, cut the podcast. Like, I don't even know if they ever aired it. It was so uncomfortable and so unnerving that she discounted the type of readings I got because she's like, no, people want answers. I'm like, not the people that come to me. And I think the universe sends you what you're good at or people who relate to your style of reading.

SPEAKER_00 8:43

Well, not only, not only that, I I can I can stand behind the idea that yes, people do want answers. That is the human in us, and that is just kind of who we are as a people, because we all just want to know if we're making the right move, if something's going to happen that we're waiting for, if, you know, he's gonna propose, or if I'm gonna have a boyfriend, or if I'm going to make a career change. We all want to know. And the beautiful thing about the utilization of divination tools is that it gives us a glimpse into our paths that we are on in this moment of time, which means in two minutes from now, if I ask you the same question and and I've sat with it, maybe I don't want the new career anymore, the answer could change because humans are fickle. And fickleness is one of the most most challenging things in predicting outcomes for the future. True.

SPEAKER_02 9:49

And really, again, I'm going back to tarot reading. Tarot is not the only divination tool. We'll jump into the other types. But one of the things I find about working with divination tools is I really want them to help me in my decision making, understanding what's going on with the self and creating that connection, but that connection that has to be there. And I really feel that when I use tarot cards and I look at them, the information is already there. It's just a place to focus my attention to get the answers that I'm looking for. It just starts flowing once I look at the picture. And I don't know what about it is popping necessarily in that moment, but I know it's the message I need and the message that has been there. I just needed to focus my attention.

SPEAKER_00 10:40

Right. And and sometimes, you know, that insight or looking into those predictive outcomes or something along those lines, you actually might find that there's actually more of a warning there too, which I always value whenever I'm using my my tarot cards. And, you know, I get very strong, like keep your eyes forward, or this'll work out. But you need to put the effort in too. It's not just about the universe is is doing its best to match your energy, but you have to make sure that you don't stop matching its. Or there's, you know, I go back to, I'm gonna say, I don't want to say my least favorite tarot card, but it it's it's a tarot card of serious importance and and it doesn't scare me. But when the moon comes up in almost any reading that that I'm doing, I know immediately the message is be mindful, there's more at play than you realize. And and that's not a bad thing, but I think we we treat it like, oh, that means it's not gonna happen. When the reality is, is it could be the opposite.

SPEAKER_02 11:48

I do want to bring to the forefront the idea of intention, because intention when using divination tools is key. It's a key to helping protect yourself. It's a key to getting an outcome that you're looking for. And I really think that that needs to be said before we go any further. I'll double down on that and say when working with divination tools, you really do need to stay open and stay curious about them. By curious, I mean you are looking to be open, to learn, and to re-build a relationship with your intuition because that only empowers you and the ability to trust yourself. So you want to be curious. You don't want to control it, you don't want it to lead your every decision. Like, okay, I've got to drive to, I don't know, a town 10 miles over today. Let me get out my cards, let me get out my divination tool to make sure it's safe for me to do so. You don't want it to become every life decision.

SPEAKER_00 12:54

Right, right. And and that does happen. I I don't know if you have seen this, Michelle, but I have met people who choose to pull cards on such a regular basis that they would make decisions based off of the cards that they're pulling or the answers they're getting from, you know, other divination tools. And it can, it can really stagnate life. You know, one of the things that we often talk about too is trusting your gut, trusting that gut intuition. And if you're supposed to drive 10 towns over and there's something about it that's not feeling right to you, put it off a little bit. Sit with it, you know, trust that gut pull, trust that, you know, really in internal feeling and know that if you're questioning it, there might be a reason.

SPEAKER_02 13:44

I was thinking of something while you were talking, and that had to do with giving you an illusion of can having control over your own life and uncertainties. Do you think that's why some people become so dependent on divination tools? Is this a form of like feeling like you have control over the outcome or what's going to happen next?

SPEAKER_00 14:04

I think that it becomes a dependency kind of situation there. I think, you know, when I have seen it and, you know, even when I've worked through it myself, like I remember there were there were points in my life where I would pull out my cards for everything, every decision that I made. And that's not to say that I just went with what the cards told me. It was more sometimes we get tired of making decisions too. So if we can compare outcomes and we can look at them with, you know, the tools that we have, it me, it, it, it takes that exhaustion away. I think it there's actually a term for it. And I honestly think it's something as simple as decision exhaustion or something like that.

SPEAKER_02 14:49

I can totally relate to that because try to get me to choose a restaurant to go to, even though in my mind I know which one I want to go to. It's like pulling teeth.

SPEAKER_00 14:58

Please don't make me make that decision. Well, and and my husband occasionally will pick me up from work at the end of the day and he'll be like, What do you want for dinner? And I'll look directly at him and be like, I can't make another decision. I'm I am fried. So sometimes I do think people use those tools so that they don't they don't wear themselves out.

SPEAKER_02 15:19

And sometimes if there's two options in front of you, that's when I'll step into them to look for a little bit of guidance. One card will represent option A, one option B, and which one feels better. Right. And again, when you're pulling them for yourself, you can throw in your own bias on them.

SPEAKER_00 15:37

Yep. Well, and I think too, that can also be where that bias of being a reader for yourself and and using it to make a decision between two different things can actually be beneficial. Because if you're looking at two cards and they're they both seem super positive, which one becomes more positive to you? And then you'll kind of naturally weed out which one, which decision you want to make. Does that make sense? Yes.

SPEAKER_02 16:04

So we have been talking about tarot cards, which are definitely a type of divination tool. They are the ones that you and I work with most often, I would say. They are basically like symbolic mirrors. They reflect the inner state and subconscious awareness with meaning shaped by the reader's intuition. There's also the very traditional shapes and meanings there beyond tarot cards, runes, R-U-N-E-S, Alphabet Dice, bibliomancy, which has to do with reading passages and books, and also tas I can't even pronounce this one. I'll call it tea leaf reading, but that is the name, Tassiomancy, and it all has to do with symbols. I was lucky enough to do a teacup reading when I was in New Orleans, and they dump it out, and then like the tea leaves form symbols, things about like the placement of them or the shape of them that then somebody reads. Yes, I've I've actually had my tea leaves read as as well. Yeah, so I think that's really cool. And again, those are really having to do with connecting through images, connecting through tradition. Yeah. Um, another type of divination tool are those pattern-based tools. Right. Something such as astrology. There's a pattern and a rhythm to it. Palm reading, you're reading the lines, and even dousing rods.

unknown 17:40

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 17:41

Where you have the opening and closing. Yes. But I like to look at dousing rods too, because that does have a little bit to do with your self-conscious movements too, when you're holding them out there. No matter how you try to hold on to them, you're gonna affect it a little bit. Right.

SPEAKER_00 18:01

And that's, you know, I would say very similar to pendulum work too. Pendulum to me. And even the Ouija board, which is a divination tool. Yes. Yes. Because you you when when you're working with a tool that you can actually manipulate, it really takes a lot of deep-seated connection for you to ensure that you are not trying to impact the answer. I know that's actually one of the biggest reasons that I steer away a lot of time from like I I have dowsing rods, I have pendulums, I don't have a Ouija board, I don't want one. And not because it scares me, but because I just I know myself. And if I want those yeses, I can make it. I I it I don't know if it's energetically or whatever, because I'm not intentionally moving things, but I think without thinking, we do.

SPEAKER_02 18:53

Yeah, there are those micro movements in your hand that you don't even realize you're doing. Right. And pendulum work can take a long time. It's a very beautiful connective tool, except you're going for yes, no, and maybe answers. So it can take a while to get there, as can the Ouija board. Right. And I do have a Ouija board story, and I may have shared it in the past. Um, I've had a couple experiences. One really scared me. That's not the one I'm going to share today. But when I was in high school, we would take photos, we would get the negatives back. And I had a bunch of negatives that I placed somewhere and I couldn't find them. So why not ask the Ouija board, where are these negatives? And so I'm sitting there, not playing by myself, because I learned that in a movie, and it kept going to VCA. And then I would, I think my micro motion stopped at VCA, it doesn't make sense, but it kept going to those letters. Well, like two weeks later, I found them in my VC Andrews book. So was that my subconscious? Was that something that was greater? I don't know. That was my experience, and I was pretty blown away by it.

SPEAKER_00 20:05

Yeah, it's actually really cool. Yeah, I we played, I I don't want to say played it. That's not the right, that's not the right language, but we we used Ouija boards when I was in high school as well. But we made our own Ouija boards. Well, I and by we, I mean my friend made one out of a a rock, like a beautiful slate of rock. And we would stay up all night playing with them. And I think that was right around the time that I actually had my first spiritual experience, like somewhere within the that in a couple of years. And that's one of the biggest reasons that I stopped using them, because I did have a lot of spirits that were trying to come through and talk to me, and it was too much.

SPEAKER_02 20:45

No, I can understand that. And, you know, at the time I was using, I was just a kid, and I will just quickly share my scary experience. Just because I was young, I was not experienced. I didn't know what I was doing. I thought I was protecting myself, but we got out the Ouija board and the room suddenly felt colder.

unknown 21:05

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 21:06

Didn't understand that back then. And we had a candle lit. And when I when we asked if anything was there, the flame on the candle like jumped in size. And I was like, nope, that's it. Packed it up, put it nicely in its box, and my parents found it the next day on the front porch of the house, and they're like, Why is this outside? I'm like, it just worked on there. And it never came back to my house again.

SPEAKER_00 21:31

Yeah, I I have done similar things. So I know this is not a divination tool, but I'll share very briefly that I had an experience with a a doll when I was when I was much, much, much younger. And I woke up in the middle of the night and a doll that did not have a voice box, I could hear it talking. And it was, I I remember I was wide awake. I could hear the voice coming from the closet, and I knew which doll it was. And So I would I was okay with playing with that doll during the day, but that thing got locked in my closet at night every or or across the house. It was not like there needed to be doors somewhere that it couldn't open.

SPEAKER_02 22:14

Yeah. No, I get that. Hence my fear of dolls now, although I loved them as a child and I never had experiences like that. But now like they scare the crap out of me. We're gonna have to do a whole episode on dolls.

SPEAKER_00 22:25

On dolls.

SPEAKER_02 22:27

Yeah, just getting back to the Ouija board. I just want to add one more thing. They can take a long time to get an answer to because they spell everything out. So if you have time to work with it, work with positive intention, always do it with someone. Remember to say goodbye and know it's gonna take a little while. But it is a tool that can help. It's not something to fear if you're using it right.

SPEAKER_00 22:50

Right. And I and I think you just you bring up a good point because any tool that you use can be malicious. Like let's let's be completely and totally honest. Like any energetic work that you're doing. So if you're using tarot, if you're using runes, if you're using pendulums, if you're using even the dowsing rods, they can all be used maliciously or like energetically maliciously. I'm not sure how else to word that. But you need to be protecting. You need to be setting boundaries and doing it with intention.

SPEAKER_02 23:22

We do have a whole section on protection in this episode. But before we move on, let's just go through the rest of the divination tools. Again, we probably aren't hitting on all of them, but some of the most popular. So we have the ones based in reader's intuition, we have the pattern-based ones, we have the direct response ones, but we also have the ones that require a meditative gaze. And that could be something along the lines of scrying. Now, many people think of scrying as being something you do with a crystal ball. You can also do it in water, in fire, in a mirror, in the darkness.

SPEAKER_00 24:03

Yep, crystal ball. Yeah. I mean, I mean, I know for me, and I I'm not gonna speak for you, but I struggle using these types of tools, not because I can't, but because I'm bad at sitting still.

SPEAKER_02 24:18

I did order a crystal ball, but it never came in the mail. So I guess it wasn't my time to learn that skill. Although I will say the closest I can get to this type of divination, and I am just using my own body for it, is when I close my eyes and I get these meditative colors that come in. And within the colors, I see shapes, I see people. It's really kind of cool. So that's as close as I can get, but I've never used a surface outside my own shut eyes or the darkness.

SPEAKER_00 24:56

I have a crystal ball, not sure exactly where it is at the moment because of how very rarely I use it, but it was, it's it's made of rose quartz. It it says it was made of rose quartz. Honestly, I think it's just a pink tinged glass, which that's that's it doesn't matter. It's still reflective. But I'm pretty sure it's in a box somewhere right now because I I don't use those tools because I'm I'm they're not a strength of mine.

SPEAKER_02 25:22

Yeah, well, maybe at some time we can explore those a little more, maybe do a little bit of research on them and get some tips for how to scry. Um because I would love to do that. And I love how you can do it in two of the elements. You can do it in water, you can do it in fire, and then of course that reflective surface. So I just wanted to make sure to give them their love and attention also, because that is a form of divination. Protection, we can step into that now because again, it's very important that no matter what you do spiritually, you bring in protection that speaks to you.

SPEAKER_00 25:59

Absolutely. So do you want to start with this one, Stacey? So I know for me when it comes to protection, I have worked with my guides for many, many, many years. And I have kind of a moving energetic field around me that filters out things that don't serve me or are not in my path. How how is that like that? And that's how I am consistently protected. And when I use my tools, I clear them first. So if I'm using tarot, for example, I will hold it in my left hand and knock on it three times to remove previous energy from it and bring in new energy. I do that too. Yeah. It doesn't surprise me that we do it so similar.

SPEAKER_02 26:43

Yeah. For me, it's very important when I'm working with divination tools that my space around me is clean and like I need it in order to feel comfortable. Again, intention. Some of the other things you can do is you can visualize a white light coming into your room. You can light a candle, say a prayer. You can bring in crystals in order to help keep that space clean. Also, sage or Palo Santo. I know that's not your favorite to work with for protection, but that is a form of protection.

SPEAKER_00 27:20

I do use Palo Santo. I prefer that over sage. I think sage can have such a strong smell that is probably the only reason that I don't utilize it as much.

SPEAKER_02 27:33

You can also bring in incense if you want.

SPEAKER_00 27:36

I love dragon's blood incense. It's my favorite.

SPEAKER_02 27:39

Okay. I haven't tried that one. I'll have to look into it. It it smells amazing. I love that. The incense smell sometimes gives me a headache, though. So I've got to be careful with it. Yeah, that makes two of us. Also, again, when you're doing a divination session, this isn't about protection ahead of time. It's about protection at the end. Kind of have a closing ritual. Close it out somehow. Say at this time I'm putting these away. I mean, it just has to be a few spoken words, maybe a quick prayer, maybe seeing a light wash away all the energy of the session, visualizing putting in a box, closing it up, putting it in the in the cabinet or something.

unknown 28:18

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 28:19

Just something to close out that session so it doesn't linger with you and take up space, both mentally, emotionally, spiritually. I guess not both, all mentally, emotionally, spiritually.

SPEAKER_00 28:29

Yeah. Yeah. And and that also goes to aid to protection to when you are using things that can become a little open-ended. You know, I know we in the past have talked about Ouija boards quite often, and we could do an entire episode on Ouija boards. I hope we do. I find them fascinating. Yeah. And they're they really are a great tool, but they are one in particular that if you don't close sessions with, spirits can use that to attempt to communicate with you after it's closed. And that can become a whole thing.

SPEAKER_02 29:05

Well, before we close out this episode, I really do want to speak to one other thing about divination tools. So many people are like, well, they're not gonna work for me. And that's not true. Divination tools are not limited to those born with psychic abilities. It is something that can be learned. Just remember that it does not predict a fixed future. It does not replace free will, right? Or remove any of your personal responsibility for the actions you take. Right. So I think those are all really important things to remember. They're also not inherently, I can't even use that word, inherently evil. No special decks are required. Like some people think, oh, the only way I can ever have a tarot deck is if somebody gives it to me. That's not true.

SPEAKER_00 29:56

No, it's true.

SPEAKER_02 29:57

You can go out and pick out one that speaks to you. I know for me it has a lot to do with the art of it and the vibe of it and how it feels in my hand. And they speak differently too, just as an aside. Yes, they do. That's true. Especially between tarot and oracle cards. Oh, absolutely. And then they're not just reserved, again, for those who are deeply spiritual or occultists. Anybody can try them, just have the right intention.

SPEAKER_00 30:23

Absolutely. And and you know what I'll even add to to that, if you don't mind, is if you are using them in such a serious capacity that you sit down and you have this list of steps that you take, you're losing the art of the tool. You're kind of losing the the mythical abilities of the of what it's designed for. I know for me, my closings and my openings are are always dependent on what I'm doing and they always look different. How I clear tarot deck is very, very similar each and every time. But sometimes if if I'm the last one that read from it and it still is just full of my energy, I don't clear it because I don't need to, you know.

SPEAKER_02 31:10

Exactly. And I know before I used to read tarot, I had this whole big ceremony ahead of it. Like things had to be in the right place. I had to have all the four elements represented in my space. And one day I'm like, I wonder if I can do this, just me walking into it cold, doing my protection, clearing the deck, and start, and I could.

SPEAKER_00 31:32

So is there anything else you want to say about divination tools? Try different ones. Um, I would say don't ever just pick something up and assume that it's the best fit for you. Because what you might find is by exploring different things, you kind of step into a niche that you might not be expecting.

SPEAKER_02 31:49

Exactly. It's kind of like when you are looking for a therapist to work with. If you go to one and you just didn't feel that connection, it's okay to try something else. Absolutely. Stay open to it. Well, as always, I would like to leave everybody with some closing thoughts, something you can think about until we meet again, something you can chat with us about in our social media or through email. But here they are. There are three questions. The first one is what do you reach for when you want clarity? So if you're working with divination tools, what are you reaching for when you want clarity?

SPEAKER_00 32:28

What's your go-to?

SPEAKER_02 32:29

Your go-to, yes. The second one is do tools help you trust yourself or do you think they distract you from your own knowing? That's the second one. And the third one is where in your life could you listen instead of search? And I love that one. I do too. I think that's amazing. I'm gonna sit with that one myself. I'm gonna actually sit with all three of them, but I'm gonna give that one a little extra love and care. Absolutely. I like that. I think with that, we are at the end of this episode. So, Stacy, do you want to take it away?

SPEAKER_01 33:04

Stay curious. Trust what you notice. And we will meet you along the spiritual byway. And tell me. Bye, everybody. Bye.

SPEAKER_02 33:19

Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of Whisper's episode. Conversations on the spiritual byway. This show exists to make a paraphone a little more. Create a space for curiosity. Connection and the kind of conversations, we don't always know what to have. If you are enjoying this podcast, we truly appreciate it if you take a moment to leave a review or to share the show with someone who might need it. Your support helps this podcast reach others who are searching for the same sense of understanding and community. Thank you so much for taking the time to be here with us and for walking the stretch of the spiritual pilot. Wherever you are on your journey right now, just know you're not alone. We're here for you, and we're all in this together.